Curse

Emik · Oct 17, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

I do remember capping Shared Burden from Kenrii Sea Sorrow in Silent Surf.
That's one of the few skills i've actually got worked up about on the Canthan continent.
All the rest - even Kunvie - was doable.

Idd Prophecies bosses itself are easier to kill but they have the different spawning locations to make it harder to get.

Kha · Oct 17, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

I noticed while reading the thread that some of you did abbadon's mouth and precipice more than once per skill. Guess what... you just missed the boss. For 90% of all spawns in Tyria, the boss is always there, you just have to know all the spawns. The 3 abbadon's mouth spiders (RC, soul leech, fevered dreams) share 4 locations, so one will be empty.

Sometimes just one of the spider bosses will spawn in Abaddon's Mouth. One. So yes, sometimes you do have to do the mission over... and over... and over... not because you missed your boss from not knowing the spawn locations, but because even though there were 3 empty spots for it to spawn, it just didn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by numagor

More on topic... i think the harder caps of Tyria give you a greater sense of accomplishment than the Cantha caps, that and you feel more 'elite' once you have it because not every man and his dog has it as well.

I don't cap elite skills to prove that I am better than others and try to convince myself that I'm "elite". I cap them to use and try out new builds. I rather have easier caps (or at least caps not as annoying as those in Abaddon's Mouth, Ring of Fire mission, and Dreadnought's Drift) so I can enjoy the game instead of wasting my time to get a fleeting sense of accomplishment. When I can properly use the elite in my build to be effective then I will feel like a better player, not by just having it in my skill list.

Lord Sarevok · Oct 17, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Capping elite skills in Cantha is much easier but that is a good thing. Wasting time to get to the back area of Ring of Fire or Abaddon's Mouth so you can cap an elite and then your boss didn't spawn is completely lame. I think Cantha elite capping is a huge step forward. Canthan maps are smaller and all areas are closer to outposts. And they made Canthan bosses always spawn and in the same location.

Part of the reason why capping in Cantha is also easier is because your henchmen aren't as terrible as they are in Prophecies. Mhenlo and Lina don't know what hex or condition removal is, the ranger henchmen has no interrupts and uses practiced stance and kindle arrows, etc. In Cantha, the henchmen have better skill sets and you have more options to pick what fits best with your skillset.

Dr Strangelove · Oct 17, 2006, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Abaddon's mouth isn't so bad, if you rush in at the beginning instead of picking the guys off the walls you'll almost always win. As for iron mines, those caps are much easier to get in ring of fire or abaddons mouth for the mursaat, or the frozen forest for the dwarves. To be honest, the construct's caps outside zen ku corridor were the worst for me. The hard prophecies caps just take a while, your odds of failing there are pretty low.

Shadowspawn X · Oct 17, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

I remember being new to the game and going crazy trying to cap Maxine Coldstone for quickshot. Documentation on the bosses was shady at best back then. I must have cleared out the rock with a non-max damage bow five or six times with random PUG's then when no one could find Maxine everyone would get their cap but me and map out leaving me there alone. Hehe those were the days.

prism2525 · Oct 18, 2006, 04:26 AM // 04:26

What about Bazzr Dustwing? He's possible to hench but usually not without a trip to the res shrine. 300+ damage every 6 seconds??

may be faster as bosses seem to have 50% fast cast and recharge, even non-mesmers. So that would make it 300+ every 3 seconds... ouch!

lennymon · Oct 18, 2006, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Meh, abaddons with henchies is very doable just go slow, even the bonus. It does take a long time though.

Arkantos · Oct 18, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42

I killed Bazzr Dustwing with all henchies, I didn't find it all that hard...

Cherno · Oct 18, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emik

I've not said it was hard to do, just annoying becoz you have to start over and over and over.
For one or two professions ok... but there are 5 different professions in that particular mission.

Tortitudo Probo: Eviscerate (Warrior)
Maligo Libens: Aura of teh Lich (Necro)
Valetudo Rubor: Greater Conflag (Ranger)
Moles Quibus: Panic (Mesmer)
Scelus Prosum: Mind Burn (Elementalist)

Undead Prince Rurik: Hundred Blades (Warrior)

Ok Rurik always spawns but this is not the case for the titans sicne theres only 4 of them in every instance.

That's not correct. All the bosses always spawn. The first is on the hill when all the fire imps gather around.
Go to the left towards the seer. Right to his NE is the next. Then there are always three in the large plain. They spawn out of the lava however and don't appear immediately. If you aren't clearing out that whole area before killing the portal guardians you are likely to miss one, but they are always all there.

Abaddon's is really quite easy with henchies for the bonus area. Willa can be a total pain in the butt if you get her, but that also depends on your profession and what skills you bring with you. Ring of Fire is probably the most difficult if you are unwilling to go back and start over if your first breeze keeper boss isn't the one you are looking for.

I always do quests and caps with henchies and missions with real people. I know exactly what skill I am going out to get, where it is and after I get it want to move on. I would hate to have someone wait around for me if they got theirs and I am the last to get mine.

The few exceptions is usually capping in Mineral Springs, although I have done it with henchies, usually like to do that with people. Also feast of corruption. It is quite a nice trip up there and the first few mobs in Dreads are a pain, but Maw is pretty easy to kill.

I really like how easy it is to get the caps in cantha. I spent way too long playing through all my characters in tyria. When I take my imported characters over, I usually just want to get armor, skill points and skills. It makes it much less tedious that I can get all my primary profession skills rather easily.

I think it is nice that you can get them easily also as for some you simply can't get until later in the game as you can't be run through cantha. So you are forced to trek through the gawdaful city and tedious faction side you choose to get a skill. I appreciate that they are quick to get.

Dawn Stormborn · Oct 19, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

Sometimes just one of the spider bosses will spawn in Abaddon's Mouth. One.

I don't know about that, I've capped a lot in AM and helped with the bonus a bunch of other times, and I've always seen the 3 spider bosses. There are 3 spider bosses (Spindle Agonyvein, Goss Darkweb, Plexus Shadowhook) and there are 3 possible spawn locations; check GuildWiki. For the other 2 caps in north AM, Snyk Hundred Tongue is always there, and Eidolon is also always there so you can infuse if you are nuts are this far without doing it).

So basically there are 5 non-mursaat caps in AM on the north part, 2 are fixed and in the same spot, and the 3 spiders are random between the 3 spots. I've never seen the case that all the 3 spider bosses weren't there. Perdition Rock is where you might not spawn the boss you need.

If you saw only one boxx spawn once, I'd say either this was a bug silently fixed or something weird happened like the roaming hydras got into a fight with the boss and killed it. But that should have left a body for you to cap off anyway.

Emik · Oct 19, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Trust me... I've been in AM to cap loads of times and do bonus etc.
It does happen that from the possible 4 locations theres only 1 present.
Same for HP. They DON'T always spawn all of them.

Aillas · Oct 19, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emik

Trust me... I've been in AM to cap loads of times and do bonus etc.
It does happen that from the possible 4 locations theres only 1 present.
Same for HP. They DON'T always spawn all of them.

We can trade anecdotes. I've also been to AM and HP more times than I can count and have never seen only 1 boss spawn.

Especially at HP - heck there are 2 on the way to the portals (1 after the first bridge area, 1 off behind the seer in that area) and the rest are there in the portal valley. If you've only seen 1 boss at HP, you aren't paying attention or looking for them.

As for AM, 3 spawn points, 4 spawn points, it doesn't matter. The # bosses <= # spawn points, so they spawn. I think the only time you don't get a spawn is when it is the other way around. Example: the Coldstone twins on Perdition Rock, 2 of them share the same spawn route. Or Snake Dance - 4 bosses and 3 spawn points, or whatever.

Kha · Oct 19, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn Stormborn

If you saw only one boxx spawn once, I'd say either this was a bug silently fixed or something weird happened like the roaming hydras got into a fight with the boss and killed it. But that should have left a body for you to cap off anyway.

It's not a bug. The spawns aren't fixed, hence there IS the possibility that not all of them will spawn. And the hydras didn't kill them. Instead of two regular spiders and a boss spider spawning, you get three regular spiders spawning.

I've been playing this game since release and have gotten over 10 characters through Prophecies. I have done AM and the bonus and the skill capping there more than I ever want to remember. It's probably second only to how many times I've had to go to Snake Dance. Even Mineral Springs is better than capping in AM imho. If you've honestly always had 3 spawn for you every single time, then you've been quite lucky. I've been in enough annoyed groups to know that this luck doesn't happen to everyone or even enough people in the game.

And I know this isn't something that was changed recently. I made my mesmer after the Nightfall PvE preview. It took me a few runs to try to get Fevered Dreams there because the boss wouldn't spawn. It's been like this since the game was released and it continues to be like this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aillas

The # bosses <= # spawn points, so they spawn.

If only this was true. Just because the number of bosses is less or equal to the number of spawn points in Prophecies does not, I repeat, DOES NOT mean the bosses will spawn. It's like this in Abaddon's Mouth, in Ring of Fire, in Snake Dance, in Mineral Springs, in Frozen Forest, etc.

I am just extremely thankful that now you cap skills after you kill the boss. It was bad enough trying to find the boss you wanted in multiple spawn points, but just pure disaster having to cap the skill after he/she just used it. Though capping Defy Pain that way is probably my proudest moment in the game.

Aillas · Oct 19, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

If you've honestly always had 3 spawn for you every single time, then you've been quite lucky. I've been in enough annoyed groups to know that this luck doesn't happen to everyone or even enough people in the game.

I'm apparently blessed because all 3 bosses have always been there for the all 7 chars I've taken for capping plus every single time I've helped anybody else with the mission and/or bonus and/or capping. Never have we failed to find the boss of interest... and yet you are saying the frequently you fail to spawn any boss at all? I just can't believe, no offense, but that is so radically different than my experience I have to see it first hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

I repeat, DOES NOT mean the bosses will spawn. It's like this in Abaddon's Mouth, in Ring of Fire, in Snake Dance, in Mineral Springs, in Frozen Forest, etc.

You obviously need to come cap with me due to the "boss spawn" key on my account. In mineral springs - 6 spawn points, 6 bosses, 1 of each profession... they are there everytime I've gone. Are you checking all 6 spots? Same with RoF - 3 breeze keeper bosses (migraine, ether prodigy, shield of def), 3 spawn points... 1 is right outside the fort and 2 are up north. I'm not sure about Snake Dance or Frozen Forest - maybe, maybe not, the thing is I would absolutely remember not finding a boss in a mission because you can't just rezone at a portal and try again.

I'll just have to be in a group when one boss fails to appear for me to believe it, because I've have personally never seen a boss in AM, RoF, Mineral Springs, or HP not spawn somewhere, it has always come down to checking all the locations. I've capped every elite in the game two times or more between my skill hunters (migraine 3 times, fevered dreams 3 times, panic 3 times, restore condition and shield of def 4 times), and come along boatloads of other trips and I don't believe I'm that lucky. Heck I've helped cap Shield of Judgement 4 times for my chars and helped others cap it at least 6 or 8 other times, and we've always found the boss and capped it. A capping trip has never ended in failure to find the boss in those zones. And I would remember that if it did.

It is bizarre, next time I'm capping in any of those spots I'll take extra effort to look for all the bosses just to double check. You seem very certain they don't always spawn yet I am 100% certain they do (again I mean RoF, AM, HP, Mineral Springs).

prism2525 · Oct 20, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27

wouldn't mind if the bosses got killed by the hydras, their corpses don't disappear anyway

Emik · Oct 20, 2006, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Trust me... I've been in AM loads of times.
I've had it happen frequently that only 1 spawns... People who say this isn't true are idd just lucky.
It's a discussion that cannot find a solution coz veryone experiences it different.
Never the less the fact that more people claim this must make it true.
Minerel Springs always has all the bosses, that's true but AM and HP aren't like that.
In AM all the Mursaat bosses will appear. but the spiders going from Fevered Dreams to Soul Leech do NOT always appear.
Punishing sShot in Snake Dance: same story And i've got enuff eyes to prove this
The amounts of zoning i had to do in order to let Thul Boulderrain appear seemed endless
Up to 12 times when it wasn't my day :/

End of story

Kha · Oct 20, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emik

Trust me... I've been in AM loads of times.
I've had it happen frequently that only 1 spawns... People who say this isn't true are idd just lucky.
It's a discussion that cannot find a solution coz veryone experiences it different.
Never the less the fact that more people claim this must make it true.
Minerel Springs always has all the bosses, that's true but AM and HP aren't like that.
In AM all the Mursaat bosses will appear. but the spiders going from Fevered Dreams to Soul Leech do NOT always appear.
Punishing sShot in Snake Dance: same story And i've got enuff eyes to prove this
The amounts of zoning i had to do in order to let Thul Boulderrain appear seemed endless
Up to 12 times when it wasn't my day :/

End of story

Mineral Springs I could be mistaken about in that it may have been a bug or something, but I do recall a time back when you had to cap the elite after the boss using it and I couldn't find the necro boss at the six spawn sites.

HP I've had to go back for Mind Burn and Greater Conflagration. RoF I only remember once not having the ele boss for Ether Prodigy spawning at all (and yes, I do know all 3 spawn sites). Again, these were most likely back during the old way of capping elites.

AM, Snake Dance, Frozen Forest, and Perdition Rock are the biggest problem areas for capping elites in the game. They have been like this since release and continue to be like this now. I've been capping elites since the first week of release all the way up to after the Nightfall PvE preview, and I've even helped confirm and discover some of the elite locations. I don't know everything about the game, nor pretend to, but I do have plenty of experience with elites and capping from 10+ characters through Prophecies and dozens of times helping others. My warrior even got Hundred Blades from a charr boss in Ascalon in the old days when you could, not HP.

Whether or not people want to believe it, the bosses just don't always spawn in some areas. There are thousands of people that can confirm this in the game, while only a handful will say otherwise. This is how Prophecies was made.

So yes, add that to the fact that many of the bosses are a bit of a walk, unlike in Cantha where there is an outpost nearby, and it is a lot easier to capture in Factions than it was in Prophecies. Simply put, I rather go up against Bazzr Dustwing again than travel all the way through Snake Dance just for a chance to cap one elite.